KenMacMillan mowi:

Nov 22, 2011 - He's weird.

powergirl901 mowi:

Dec 15, 2011 - Thanks to Graeber to spell out the explicit use of violence (or threats) that underpin our capitalist leanings here (USA). I always felt that use of money was a life or death proposition, but didn't know the history of this system.

TheNixonYears mowi:

Dec 18, 2011 - nice to have another great contemporary anarchist voice

homoeroticfood mowi:

Dec 29, 2011 - The bailout of banks in the US/UK was a total failure. It was meant to 'secure' the financial system via recapitalisation which would allow banks to lend to each other and to firms and to consumers but none of this has happened. People have been left with debt on houses whose values were inflated by bank lending which then suddenly 'lost' substantial value in a matter of months.

homoeroticfood mowi:

Dec 29, 2011 - Think about this: there are just as many houses now as there were before the crisis and just as many people who need to be housed. An efficient market would be able to house everyone. So why hasn't it been able to do so? Why are banks kicking people out of houses? The banks have in effect lumbered unecessarily excessive debt on people, and, therefore, on the market as whole. People are paying $500,000 debts for things which are now worth only $300,000. The banks need to accept that mortgage

homoeroticfood mowi:

Dec 29, 2011 - The banks need to accept that mortgages need to be restructured by reducing the amount owed. The US government should have forced this debt restructuring by attaching conditions on bailout money - at once recapitalising banks' balance sheets and expediating the process of deleveraging.

juliaisafilmbuff123 mowi:

Jan 17, 2012 - Money sucks.

MARMOTEER1423 mowi:

Jan 29, 2012 - this man may or may not be brilliant, but he is a horrible orator with bad presentation of ideas and concepts.

MARMOTEER1423 mowi:

Jan 29, 2012 - all his ideas are built around "potential for violence." people create structures within their society to provide security. this may be through laws, or through "violence." this is a horrible way of putting it. if he does have any good ideas at all- they're not coming across 

dagohsteuro mowi:

Jan 29, 2012 - ur a fucking moron. they aren't coming across to you, apparently, but I think that is your fault and not his.

hallavast mowi:

Jan 29, 2012 - "Violence is necessary for money in debts". I think this is descriptive rather than prescriptive. In the situation described, there are alternatives to threatening violence. "X cows or this means war" could be changed out for "X cows or this means an end to our doing business with each other". But even so, violence is not a state. A monopoly on violence is a state. So the "state before money" idea isn't a necessary truth.

utubesqueeze mowi:

Feb 1, 2012 - @hallavast 1. He didn't "X cows OR this means war" . He said the concept of money naturally arose from the quantification of debt required AFTER an injury, i.e. as compensation. 2. Regardless of how a state is formed (though most states across all history required copious violence in formation), the state not only has a monopoly on maximal violence, but also from this necessarily stems the rights between entities.

utubesqueeze mowi:

Feb 1, 2012 - Historically, gifts + debts -> community community + violence -> state state + monopoly(violence) -> rights rights -> quantity(debt) + technology -> physical money physical money + organisations -> paper money paper money + violence -> war debts greater than physical -> fiat money. Barter is outside of all of these and normally only occurs when money used to exist or between enemies or complete strangers outside of the state.

utubesqueeze mowi:

Feb 1, 2012 - @hallavast Of course, in the last 40 (since 1971), it seems the following is also true: fiat money -> debt mountain much greater than sustainable global growth Maybe in future: debt mountain -> community + violence? [ a combination of deleveraging and reverse globalisation due to protectionism and rapidly increasing demographics taxing all resources ] If so, then we will come full circle...

KanchoKomancho mowi:

Mar 12, 2012 - @utubesqueeze. BRAVO

onepiecefan74 mowi:

Apr 12, 2012 - This idea that barter has never existed is completely absurd. First the kind of Debt Graeber is talking about is in fact a form of Bartter. Second We've seen relatively modern societies go through barter. Here in America the English bartered with Natives and the colonies of Virginia, Maryland, and North Carolina all used tobacco as money since it was popularly traded. Graeber defiantly a provocateur, which is a good thing, but never go off one person, or sides, source.

onepiecefan74 mowi:

Apr 12, 2012 - P.S If you interested in a exalent, thorough, unbiased history of civilizations then check out The Story Of Civilizations by Will Durant. 11 volumes going from the first ancient tribes to Napoleon and over 10,000 pages long!

onepiecefan74 mowi:

Apr 12, 2012 - Wrong Mr Graeber . The U.S Debt was all paid off in 1835 by Andrew Jackson.

nickqt mowi:

Apr 20, 2012 - Spot trading isn't barter. Read his book.

onepiecefan74 mowi:

Apr 20, 2012 - I have read his book and more than once.Spot Trade is the exact same thing as barter. I think you meant to say that gift and debt based economies aren't barter. If by barter you mean direct spot trade than no your right. If by barter you mean any direct transaction than they do in fact share enough similarities to not challenge the properties of money in the current economy.

Lukege15 mowi:

May 14, 2012 - You lucky bastard :P Have fun :D

gasdemup mowi:

May 24, 2012 - thats very false go and read the book a history of interest rates or the book the idea of usury...

onepiecefan74 mowi:

May 24, 2012 - History of Interest Rates is one of my favorite books. It was that book that taught me that gift economies came way before money and operate on credit. I'm not sure what you think I was wrong about. was it that I said Dr Graeber rediscovery didn't really effect the current properties of money? If so please explain how it does

KbcBerlin mowi:

May 26, 2012 - Very interesting, but I can´t see where this information takes us in todays world with 7 billion plus interacting. Debt is a normally a promise. In trade an enabler. I have a project which I believ will make more than it costs. I do not have the resources so I convince somebody with the resourses to fund me for a share of the profits. In German loans are given by "Glaubiger" "belivers". They believe they will share in the win from the venture.

KbcBerlin mowi:

May 26, 2012 - It´s always about status. There are still communities where the whole village help newly weds to build their house. How would a person be seen in a community if they had their house built, and then refused to help in the building of others houses ? The loss of face, status, and respect would be crushing for most. Nowadays people believe they only have to show they have a lot to gain respect, and status. The loss of the social sanction on how they got the goods is the problem we have.